5 Mainstream 2007 Movies Better Than Knocked Up....

... and therefore films I'd consider for best picture before considering it.

1) Ratatouille

2) Hot Fuzz

3) Sunshine

4) Before the Devil Knows Your Dead

5) No Country for Old Men

My point, once again, is not that Knocked Up is a bad movie. It isn't. It just isn't brilliant.  It's a  pretty good film that only achieves something akin to greatness when graded on the curve of the particularly loathesome genre of the romantic comedy. I enjoyed it. Great date movie. Made me smile.  But it ain't no Annie Hall fer chrissakes!

Comments

[Noah]

I'll give you Ratatouille, which was amazing, and I have not seen the others, but by condemning the whole genre, you're already acting unfairly. I could just as easily condemn The Godfather by saying the gangster genre is morally wrong. Knocked Up paints a more honest, funnier, and yet more hopeful picture of human interaction than any comedy since ... well, possibly since Annie Hall.

[cgeye]

Hot Fuzz? Damn skippy.

If I want amorality and ultra-violence and offense, I'd sure as hell take it from those guys than from the stuck-in-masculine-puerility stylists of Apatow's crew. I saw HF in a dollar movie joint, with sticky floors everywhere, and I still wanted to stay and see it again. If I have to my own best Santa and get the DVD, I'd do it.

That plot was so tight, the characters so well thought out, that I wanted to french-kiss the script. If fact, if I can find it, I just might print it out and spend a candlelight supper with it first, during the holidays....

[Joshua James]

You know, I don't consider THE DEPARTED to be the best movie last year (I'd hold that it was CHILDREN OF MEN) but that doesn't mean it wasn't a damn good movie, simply because folks have issues about nominating "sci-fi" movies and comedies . . .

The best film I've seen this year so far is 3:10 TO YUMA (have seen Old Country yet) . . . and I'm not saying KNOCKED UP is the best picture I've seen this year, but it's definitely up there, it's definitely top ten, above Transformers and Spiderman 3 and Shrek the Turd . . . and it feels you're knocking it for being a comedy . . . not all comedies have to be ANNIE HALL to be considered, do they?

Why can't a really great, really raunchy romantic comedy, if people really enjoy the work done, why can't they consider it one of the best movies they've seen this year?

Criminy.

[Joshua James]

I should add that all my friends say ONCE is the best fucking movie of the year, and I have it in my que . . . I'm not able to go out to movies much these days, heh.

But I'm open to it. SUNSHINE is also in the que.

HEY, MY KID COULD PAINT THAT is also supposed to rock.

And JUNO ain't released yet, but many people tell me it's one of the best films yet - but it is an R-rated comedy about a pregnant teen, so . . . .

[Noah]

I've seen Juno at a test screening and it is wonderful. Knocked Up was almost, but not quite, a life changing movie for me; Juno isn't in that realm, but it's excellent. Ellen Page is great (I feel bad for hating her in X-Men ... I hope there's award talk for her) and the dynamic of her family is one of the best I've ever seen on film. I also saw a prescreening of a decent but not great comedy called Baby Mama starring Tina Fey and Amy Poehler coming out next year -- Poehler plays Fey's surrogate. There's no bigger fan of those two than me, so I might have liked it more if it weren't on the heels of two brilliant pregnancy comedies.

[isaac]

Josh,

I honestly cannot believe that any reader of this blog could seriously argue that I'm prejudiced against a work of art because of its genre. One of the five films I'd nominate is a kids movie about a rodent that wants to become a chef, and one of them is a parody of action films. One is a sci-fi film, one is a western and one is a crime movie. They are, in fact, all genre films. I mean this with all due respect but also in all honesty... did you read my post before responding to it?

I'm aggravated because Knocked Up is a very poorly made film. *That* is my issue with it. The way that scene are obviously cobbled together from disperate improved takes. The way that the plot on some level stops making sense about two thirds of the way through because it's beholden to the rom-com formula of big-fight-big-make-up. Or the fact that the male lead and his friends are so exagerratedly terrible as human beings that the redemption at the end makes no sense?

The film is able to blow past all of these objections because it is a fun movie with good performances that makes you feel good about yourself. But the objections are still there.

In other words, my issue is with the piss poor standards that we have for comedy, these same standards that gave birth to Kevin Smith.

I have no problem with people going and enjoying themselves at a movie. Which is pretty much the experience I had at KNOCKED UP. I liked it. I liked the big smile that anne gave me when it was over. I have a problem with people elevating something above what it is.

[isaac]

And noah...

Okay, I gotta ask.. what was "life changing" about the film for you? I dont' mean that argumentatively. I'm really interested. Clearly it touched something in you that it didn't in me. I'd love to know what that is.

[Joshua James]

Issac,

I'm surprised, too . . . but you have no comedies on your list, and your criteria was stated that, "it ain't Annie Hall, for chrissakes".

Shoot, dude . . . KNOCKED UP ain't worth a flame war, it wouldn't be my fave movie of the year, but it's definitely a well written, well acted and, in my opinion, a well executed film.

You knocked it for being somewhat unbelievable (due to work status for a Canadian) and for production values and camera placement?

When we saw it, we couldn't hear half of what was said because people were laughing so hard.

I mean, come on, Judd ain't Kevin Smith . . . there's something working there with this film, I believe that. He does more than just put a camera in front of actors and let them fuck around.

There's substance there.

Now I liked HOT FUZZ, I did, but it wasn't in my top ten list, if I had one . . . it lost something for me about two-thirds of the way thru, it was more style over substance . . . nothing wrong with that, just my opinion . . . I like substance more than style . . .

[Joshua James]

I realized you probably consider HOT FUZZ as a comedy, whereas it played more like an action movie than a comedy, to me.

I mean, if my ma was looking for a comedy recommendation, I wouldn't tell her HOT FUZZ . . . it's too bloody (something the Samurai Lady didn't like about it, it is pretty gory, which was one of my fave things about it) . . . it's definitely an action flick with some funnies thrown in . . .

And I consider animated films to be a different genre . . . just thought I'd qualify my post above.

[Noah]

Isaac, how can you claim you're not prejudiced against a genre when you just called romantic comedies "loathsome"?

I didn't notice any of the faults you find in this movie. The method of assembling semi-improvised takes only helps Apatow in creating the feeling of an evening spent hanging around with friends. The plot, while erratically paced, seemed wholly logical to me. I find nothing unrealistic about Ben's friends, nor did I find them unlikable. I probably wouldn't hang out with them in real life since I don't smoke pot, but for 45 minutes of a two hour movie, I thought they were great company.

As for how this was nearly life changing ... Look, mostly due to one disastrous day near the end of grad school I have not written a play for adults in 3 1/2 years. I left Knocked Up reminded of how much humor and catharsis can be found in human beings, in how they interact with each other, and the horrible things they can do to themselves and the people they love. Human beings need to be shown all the agony and joy of love, of the absurdity and beauty of the human condition and Knocked Up does this with an honesty rarely seen in any popular entertainment. For me, this was inspirational. The movie made me feel like I have something to contribute to culture, like my voice could be useful. I didn't actually start writing the screenplay I'm working on now until a few months later, but it's very possible that without Knocked Up I would never have started, or, if I had, it would be a slow mechanical exercise instead of the labor of love it is.

Plus, Katherine Heigl is really hot.

[isaac]

Noah,

Actually that's quite helpful. And I meant the loathesome thing as a bit of hyperbole, sorry. I *do* think that it's a genre with a very high failure-to-success ratio (perhaps because it's formula is so iron clad) but I do enjoy a good romcom (particularly both of the two adapted from Nick Hornby novles) from time to time.

[Joshua James]

I quite frankly found that it really, really mirrored a lot of my life (in fact, I have that same Amsterdam t-shirt) and the Samurai Lady and I had that same frigging argument when I didn't read any of the baby books, I shit you not.

And there are different approaches for different movies, a ragged look is better for some types than the classical . . . MEATBALLS is a fun film, as is CADDYSHACK, and they're both very loose, very ragged.

You gotta admit, KNOCKED UP is better than PRETTY WOMAN, which was nominated for Best Picture, ugh.

[Noah]

Okay, I'm glad we're cool. And yes, the majority of romcoms are terrible. A few weeks after we saw the test screening of Knocked Up we saw one for License to Wed. This was on the Warner Lot, in a screening room that might have once screen a rough cut of Casablanca. I had high hopes, since I like John Krasinski; I liked Mandy Moore well enough when she was playing evil in Saved! and American Dreamz; Robin Williams hasn't been on his game for a while, but there's always hope; and the director had some pretty good TV credits as well as Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants and Follow That Bird. Then I found myself writing "This movie is an utter piece of shit" on the test card. Sigh.

[Kyle]

A slight correction: Julia Roberts was nominated for the 1990 Best Actress Oscar, but PRETTY WOMAN was not nominated for Best Picture. GHOST was, though. Thank goodness for that.

[Abe Goldfarb]

Josh, my man, in what universe is Hot Fuzz anything but a comedy? It gets the action licks right, but its real genius is playing utterly mundane police work as Tony Scott-style bedlam. There's not a real action sequence in it for almost 90 minutes. I think it qualifies as a comedy, first and foremost.

Romantic comedy is the hardest genre to pull off because it necessitates, usually, what Roger Ebert deems the Idiot Plot. That's when a plot can only be supported by one character not knowing a key piece of information, one that is kept from them through ludicrous narrative contortions. Knocked Up deserves credit for not playing that game, and actually basing its arguments in two people who are actually striving to COMMUNICATE instead of obfuscate. There's so much pain in it, and my brother, whose girl just turned 3, said this when I called it hilarious: "Yeah, except when you have a kid and it's a documentary."

And I don't allow that somehow comedy shouldn't be held to a high directorial standard. Apatow is basically passable. He commits few outright aesthetic sins, but it's TV-level all the way. And as I've said before, the script and performances elevate the shit out of it.

[sashanaomi]

You honestly think Ratatouille and Sunshine were better than Super Bad and Knocked Up?
Sunshine was one of the most blah, disappointing films this year. It started out with a good premise, then it turned into cheap Hollywood nonsense with that ridiculous burned monster guy. Ratatouille was overrated. I liked it when it was called "An American Tale."

[Joshua James]

"Josh, my man, in what universe is Hot Fuzz anything but a comedy?"

Honestly, for it to be a comedy, I would need to laugh more . . . at least more than I would at an action movie . . . I don't say this as a slam on it . . . they played it sooo straight, in such a way that was indeed brilliant . . . but the honest truth of the matter was, while it was funny, it wasn't so funny that people killed themselves laughing (like, for example, at the screenings of BORAT) . . . it just didn't play like a comedy.

I found SHAUN OF THE DEAD have a lot more laughter in it . . .

Hey, it's subjective.

but I agree with you on Knocked Up, they don't play idiot stick with the plot, if anything people are brutally honest and I liked that.

[Moxie the Maven]

"Honestly, for it to be a comedy, I would need to laugh more"
So if a movie doesn't make you laugh, it doesn't belong in the comedy genre? There are like a million and a half movies starring Dane Cook or Johnny Knoxville, and they don't make me laugh, but they really can't be called anything but comedies. Come on, Hot Fuzz was intended to be a comedy - an off-the-beaten-path, bloody comedy, but a comedy still.

[Joshua James]

Moxie,

A lot of people laughed during PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE, but the thing was, it wasn't the intent of the makers.

So, was the intent of HOT FUZZ to make us laugh, or was it something else . . . according to interviews, they strove to make it as much like a Bay action flick as possible, so it seems their intent was more than just comedy.

Was it satire? Sure . . . but not all satire qualifies as comedy.

In this case, their intent was satire and I'd argue that they put aside the comedy genre to focus on satirizing another . . . now was their laughs? Sure, but again, their intent wasn't only to make us laugh, it was something more . . .

For example, DR. STRANGELOVE is pretty funny, but it's NOT really a comedy, per se, but a satire on American Warmongering . . . the amusement is tempered by a dark vision and any humor we have is simply a by-product . . . Kubrick and company wanted to do more than make us laugh, and sacrificed laughs to that end.

I'd say the same is true of HOT FUZZ, and that's a compliment, tho ultimately I still felt unfullfilled by it and appreciated it more than I enjoyed it, I wouldn't call it a comedy.

It's a satire with different intent.

[sashanaomi]

I can't believe I'm commenting on this again. I mean, "Knocked Up" isn't genius or anything, but it does make some interesting remarks. I just saw this deleted scene. I love how it makes a gigantic social commentary, but it's completely veiled as mainstream ranting by the stereotypical overweight comic relief character. It's like what would have happened if the overweight kid in "Goonies" had monologues of substance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOj8IvcWJM

[stefzad]

Knocked Up was a really dumb film. There. I've said it. So tired of pretending everything these guys do is genius. I don't see their work evolving much, and wondering why I keep adding their stuff to my Netflix queue.